Question about a swap rule

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Question about a swap rule; first person can have a last move?
Topic Started: Nov 23 2009, 10:10 AM (731 Views)
Marlene	Nov 23 2009, 10:10 AM Post #1
Crazy Foreign Woman Posts: 9,127 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: December 23, 2005	Last time I noticed that there was a swap and all of a sudden at the end the first person was allowed to have a last move because they had to ask for a reveal as being the first participant of course and his or her book wasn't picked. I had not seen that in years over here so I was surprised and thought maybe this has never happened that the first person's reveal wasn't picked but now , and I have been playing in so many swaps but hey maybe i missed it. But then I just was adding the YBS to zoho and giz was the first player, asked for a reveal and nobody stole that but nothing happened. so this time this (new to me) rule wasn't imposed. I just like to have 1 rule so I know what i can expect. I think I would have been pissed off if I'd played in that first swap if I am honest. Most of the time people are nice and when they see there book is not stolen and someone is not getting any game play steal back there own book which I think is okay in that case. What do you guys think? By the way This is not an attack cause I have not even an idea which swap it was and who said about that rule but I just like to have it clear for the future.



msjoanna	Nov 23 2009, 10:54 AM Post #2
Exceedingly Obsessed Posts: 3,146 Group: Members Member #177 Joined: January 22, 2007	I think it's up to the swap host to set the rules for that swap. I don't think it's a bad rule, but it seems kind of unnecessary since the first person usually gets a fair amount of play time and if not, well, those are the breaks sometimes.



dancing-dog	Nov 23 2009, 02:15 PM Post #3
Posts: 2,728 Group: Members Member #132 Joined: January 17, 2007	I've only got about a dozen swaps under my belt but up to this point I had never heard of that rule. Interesting. Perhaps the majority of swap hostesses do not play this rule?



AceofHearts	Nov 23 2009, 06:18 PM Post #4
Totally Obsessed Posts: 10,407 Group: Members Member #59 Joined: December 23, 2005	One of the swap rules was: If the first person was not stolen from they had the last move and Lauren used that rule in her latest swap. I honestly did not notice it in the YBS or I would have said something. It is rarely used as this rarely happens. The first person has no choice but to reveal. Any other person can steal or reveal, their choice. If this were not the case. people would reveal their own book in first spot and it would not be as much fun. One can say that the person revealing should offer a different book but many do not do that and it is not a rule to do so. The first person could also say no to the book but she offered a book and therefore should get a book in return. I, personally do not think this is an unreasonable rule and allows that person in first to also enjoy the game Edited by AceofHearts, Nov 23 2009, 06:25 PM.



elsi	Nov 23 2009, 06:26 PM Post #5
Exceptionally Obsessed Posts: 5,766 Group: Members Member #985 Joined: September 20, 2007	I've never run across that rule either. And I've never employed it in the YBS swap, even though several times we've had the #1 player exit the swap with the very first book revealed. In the YBS thread, I replied to Marlene with this: Quote: Marlene - in this swap since Sunny and I have been in charge, we've not had any special consideration for the first player. I don't see that it's all the different from any other player who never had a book stolen from them, including the person who asks for the last reveal. Yes, the first player never had a chance to do anything except reveal, but any player runs a risk of holding a book that is not appealing to others in the game. In this case, where the book that Giz is holding wasn't stolen, there are several things that could happen: 1 - Jordanne could offer Giz a choice of another book from her shelf. It's not required, but is often done when a book is never stolen. 2 - Giz could ask Jordanne if she's open to letting her select a different book 3 - Giz could tell Jordanne not to bother sending the book if it's not of interest to her 4 - Giz could simply accept the book when it arrives and then swap or release it later 5 - Giz could be thrilled to receive the book from Jordanne and breathing a sigh of relief that no one stole it from her.



elsi	Nov 23 2009, 06:29 PM Post #6
Exceptionally Obsessed Posts: 5,766 Group: Members Member #985 Joined: September 20, 2007	AceofHearts Nov 23 2009, 06:18 PM One of the swap rules was: If the first person was not stolen from they had the last move and Lauren used that rule in her latest swap. I honestly did not notice it in the YBS or I would have said something. It is rarely used as this rarely happens. But if the first person gets one last play, she can steal a book from someone else and "stick" that person with the unwanted book. Doesn't seem any more fair than the first player winding up with it.



shaunesay	Nov 23 2009, 07:57 PM Post #7
Exceptionally Obsessed Posts: 7,465 Group: Members Member #19 Joined: December 23, 2005	elsi Nov 23 2009, 06:29 PM AceofHearts Nov 23 2009, 06:18 PM One of the swap rules was: If the first person was not stolen from they had the last move and Lauren used that rule in her latest swap. I honestly did not notice it in the YBS or I would have said something. It is rarely used as this rarely happens. But if the first person gets one last play, she can steal a book from someone else and "stick" that person with the unwanted book. Doesn't seem any more fair than the first player winding up with it. That's always been my problem with that rule as well. I guess my opinion is that by signing up for the swap, you're accepting the risk that that could happen to you.



KathyB	Nov 23 2009, 08:08 PM Post #8
Exceedingly Obsessed Posts: 4,266 Group: Members Member #559 Joined: April 29, 2007	I tend to agree with MsJoanna. Sometimes that's just the breaks.



HoserLauren	Nov 23 2009, 10:00 PM Post #9
Exceptionally Obsessed Posts: 5,116 Group: Members Member #94 Joined: April 24, 2006	Marlene Nov 23 2009, 10:10 AM Last time I noticed that there was a swap and all of a sudden at the end the first person was allowed to have a last move because they had to ask for a reveal as being the first participant of course and his or her book wasn't picked. I had not seen that in years over here so I was surprised and thought maybe this has never happened that the first person's reveal wasn't picked but now , and I have been playing in so many swaps but hey maybe i missed it. Yes, that was my swap thank you. As far as I'm concerned, this has always been a rule of swapping and will continue to be a rule in the swaps I host.



Sunlightbub	Nov 23 2009, 10:55 PM Post #10
Exceptionally Obsessed Posts: 5,631 Group: Members Member #52 Joined: December 23, 2005	I have also heard that rule, but if I'm honest hadn't noticed that the situation applied in the last swap..I agree with all the other posts, but I'm personally of the opinion that as we haven't employed that rule in the YBS for thr last yearor soand it isn't advertised that when you sign up, thems the breaks. In thisparticular case I'mfairly confident Giz will have been offered an alternative, but I'y aso confident she probably isn't that concerned as she isn't short of books! If itmakes everyone happier I'lll do a poll when it isn't 3 in the morning to get peoples preferences aound this rule



wss4	Nov 23 2009, 11:54 PM Post #11
So many books, So little time! Posts: 6,796 Group: Members Member #41 Joined: December 23, 2005	shaunesay Nov 23 2009, 07:57 PM elsi Nov 23 2009, 06:29 PM AceofHearts Nov 23 2009, 06:18 PM One of the swap rules was: If the first person was not stolen from they had the last move and Lauren used that rule in her latest swap. I honestly did not notice it in the YBS or I would have said something. It is rarely used as this rarely happens. But if the first person gets one last play, she can steal a book from someone else and "stick" that person with the unwanted book. Doesn't seem any more fair than the first player winding up with it. That's always been my problem with that rule as well. I guess my opinion is that by signing up for the swap, you're accepting the risk that that could happen to you. I would agree. Does not seem like a very fair rule for the person who gets stolen from after all is said and done. I have always gone into swaps knowing that I may not want the book that I end up with. It is just one of the risks of the game. I certainly would not want to be the person who used that rule and stuck someone else with a book that no one wants. I would rather take the book myself and find another use for it. But that is just me.



azuki	Nov 24 2009, 01:17 AM Post #12
TBR - To Infinity and Beyond!! Posts: 2,758 Group: Members Member #120 Joined: January 15, 2007	I can see the reason for setting up this rule. The first player asks for a reveal, then have to sit through the whole game without playing at all. Giving her a last move could give her something to look forward to. On the other hand, every time someone asks for a reveal, it's the same risk of getting an unpopular book and being stuck with it for the rest of the game. True, that person has a choice to steal instead, but then if nobody wants to reveal the game will never end. Now, if I am number 2 player. I ask for a reveal that's not stolen from. Player #1 gets a last move, but I, being just one slot below #1, don't get that chance for a last move. If fairness is the issue then shouldn't all players who didn't get a move at all except to ask for the initial reveal get a chance to go? And as Elsi said, that's just sticking an unpopular book with someone else, as that person is likely not interested in that book either or she may have stolen it already. (okay, she may like it but like another book more.) It isn't any better or fairer than just ending the game with the last reveal. That being said, I have no big objection if that rule is applied. I just don't see it as being superior. It makes one player happier but another one not, so there's no gain. Towards the end of a game, I know that any moment my book may be stolenand I would have to just kiss it good bye, or I my be lucky and someone just end the game and I get to keep a wishlist book with a fourth steal. Adding a last move by first player doesn't change the risk that much, and as all agree, you sign up for a swap knowing that it's a game with risk. If you don't want that risk, you should just join a vbb or relay. Nor do I feel that we need to vote on it to unify the swap rules. Just like vbb's have different rules. As long as it's stated clearly, such that members who do have a strong preference one way or the other know about it and can decide to join or not based on that. Sorry it's late I know my grammar must be awful but I am too tired. Work has been super busy, worked 11 hours today...



Jordanne	Nov 24 2009, 01:47 AM Post #13
Exceedingly Obsessed Posts: 2,734 Group: Members Member #2,431 Joined: April 21, 2008	elsi Nov 23 2009, 06:26 PM I've never run across that rule either. And I've never employed it in the YBS swap, even though several times we've had the #1 player exit the swap with the very first book revealed. In the YBS thread, I replied to Marlene with this: Quote: Marlene - in this swap since Sunny and I have been in charge, we've not had any special consideration for the first player. I don't see that it's all the different from any other player who never had a book stolen from them, including the person who asks for the last reveal. Yes, the first player never had a chance to do anything except reveal, but any player runs a risk of holding a book that is not appealing to others in the game. In this case, where the book that Giz is holding wasn't stolen, there are several things that could happen: 1 - Jordanne could offer Giz a choice of another book from her shelf. It's not required, but is often done when a book is never stolen. 2 - Giz could ask Jordanne if she's open to letting her select a different book 3 - Giz could tell Jordanne not to bother sending the book if it's not of interest to her 4 - Giz could simply accept the book when it arrives and then swap or release it later 5 - Giz could be thrilled to receive the book from Jordanne and breathing a sigh of relief that no one stole it from her. I love the different options you wrote down. In this case, I did pm Giz during the swap to ask if she liked the book and offered to steal back my own book. She said she'd like to read it but I think that's what usually happens. The person who offers the book either offers a free choice from her shelf or steals back the book. It's part of the game, isn't it?



Amberkatze	Nov 24 2009, 02:37 AM Post #14
The Queen of Paranormal Posts: 6,233 Group: Members Member #186 Joined: January 24, 2007	I am not sure if it is because I am feeling a little ill but I have read through this thread a couple of times and still don't understand what the 'rule' and the problem is However seeing as I am a swap hostess I feel it something that I should know about...but I can't make any sense of Marlene's post sorry and the other posts till now haven't helped me much either. I am hoping this fuzzy head goes away soon and I feel better but could someone post this in simple?



Marlene	Nov 24 2009, 06:38 AM Post #15
Crazy Foreign Woman Posts: 9,127 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: December 23, 2005	Thanks for all the input girls. I also agree that it would not be fair for the person when this rule is applied from whom she or he will take the book. Lets say I have done my best to get my hands on a book and am very happy and then all of a sudden I end up with a book nobody wanted. I did not want it otherwise I would have stolen it and as Elsi said most of us take care to make sure the person gets a good book. I for one will steal my own book if i see that it is revealed in the beginning but nobody wants it. not that that is mandatory but I know that also happens. Thanks Dana. Which swap was it so I can show Amber what I mean. And one thing I knew before I started this thread, that Giz would not care less! She is just a sweetheart.



Potok-fan	Nov 24 2009, 06:57 AM Post #16
Team Banzai Posts: 2,468 Group: Members Member #106 Joined: July 24, 2006	I'm a Yankee (from New England), and have played a lot of Yankee swaps (not book ones, online, but real-life ones), and yes - it's often a rule that the first person gets to steal back anything they want. I think everyone goes into a swap with the understanding that it's a risk. You might get get your favorite thing, but you probably won't. Here, I've assumed that it's up to the swap host(ess), and whatever rules they set, those are the rules that people play by.



zzz	Nov 24 2009, 11:46 AM Post #17
Exceptionally Obsessed Posts: 7,090 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: December 23, 2005	Amberkatze Nov 24 2009, 02:37 AM I am not sure if it is because I am feeling a little ill but I have read through this thread a couple of times and still don't understand what the 'rule' and the problem is I do have an inkling about what you talking about but not clear picture. But I would really like to know if that (whatever it is) rule will be applied in the swap before the game start (to be listed as an official rule in sign up thread or so).



dancing-dog	Nov 24 2009, 12:26 PM Post #18
Posts: 2,728 Group: Members Member #132 Joined: January 17, 2007	zzz Nov 24 2009, 11:46 AM Amberkatze Nov 24 2009, 02:37 AM I am not sure if it is because I am feeling a little ill but I have read through this thread a couple of times and still don't understand what the 'rule' and the problem is I do have an inkling about what you talking about but not clear picture. But I would really like to know if that (whatever it is) rule will be applied in the swap before the game start (to be listed as an official rule in sign up thread or so). I understand what everyone is saying (don't worry Amber, we'll get you straightened out) and I think zzz makes a good point. To me it would be courteous for the swap host(ess) to state if this rule is going to be used in a swap at the beginning of the swap so that there all no surprises at the end if the number 1 person does get a chance to steal a book after sitting quietly the entire swap and takes it.



Lemonitsa	Nov 24 2009, 01:42 PM Post #19
Pink is the new Pink \o/ Posts: 5,923 Group: Members Member #220 Joined: January 30, 2007	I didn't even know the rule existed so I'm just having fun reading this entire thread.



BooksnBeer	Nov 24 2009, 01:51 PM Post #20
Exceedingly Obsessed Posts: 2,530 Group: Members Member #2,253 Joined: March 21, 2008	Potok-fan Nov 24 2009, 06:57 AM I'm a Yankee (from New England), and have played a lot of Yankee swaps (not book ones, online, but real-life ones), and yes - it's often a rule that the first person gets to steal back anything they want. I think everyone goes into a swap with the understanding that it's a risk. You might get get your favorite thing, but you probably won't. Here, I've assumed that it's up to the swap host(ess), and whatever rules they set, those are the rules that people play by. Chiming in - I have seen this rule also. But, it is only in the game we play called "white elephant". In this game all the gifts are gag gifts, or close to gag gifts. I like it in that game - but, I agree with alot of the other posts and won't particularly like it here.



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