Title: SandDanz's Owed Books
CheriePie - January 17, 2008 08:26 PM (GMT)
Anyone who is waiting for a book from SandDanz, who hasn't otherwise acquired it elsewhere or no longer wants it, should list it here in this thread (which will then be updated in this top-most post).
There were a few posts discussing this posted to the
Pay It Forward thread starting here.
(Unfortunately, due to chronological sorting, it didn't work out to move those posts over here as my post to consolidate it all at the top of the thread would no longer appear at the top. :(From Teen VBB: From Romance VBB: From Horror VBB: From Sc-fi Fantasy VBB:Round 2 - July 2006- The Earthsea Cycle Book 5: The Other Wind by Ursula K. LeGuin (SandDanz --> malagan)
Round 3 - September 2006 - Probe Book 1: Probe by Carole Nelson Douglas (SandDanz --> AsterW)
- Dragonheart by Charles Edward Pogue (SandDanz --> AsterW)
Round 5 - January 2007 - The Dubious Hills by Pamela Dean (Tribefan --> Xeyra) mailed to SandDanz for M-bag 2/13/07
From Mystery VBBRound 2: July 2006
- 4th of July by James Patterson (SandDanz --> Morsecode)
- Burned by Carol Higgins Clark (SandDanz --> Suefitz)
Round 3: August 2006 - Stalker by Faye Kellerman (SandDanz --> LadyJanet)
- To the Nines by Janet Evanovich (SandDanz -- Suefitz)
- Blown Away by David Wiltse (SandDanz --> Pyan) no longer needs
- Lifeguard by James Patterson (SandDanz --> FranciJo) doesn't want
Round 6: November 2006 - Dalziel and Pascoe #20: Dialogues of the Dead by Reginald Hill (Sand --> Famfatale)
Round 7 - January 2007 - Digital Fortress by Dan Brown (Sand --> redhot-brat)
- Puss In Boots by Ed McBain (Sand --> Suefitz)
- Spenser # 10: The Widening Gyre by Robert B. Parker (Sand --> Potok-fan)
From the Audio VBB From the Paranormal VBB ·
Personal SwapsOwed to alsgal: no rush she sez ;)- Buster Midnight's Cafe by Sandra Dallas from a swap
- Christmas Cards from the Edge by Lisa Cach from Christmas Swap lexilewords sending her copy to alsgal
Owed to CheriePie: - Tales of the Otori series by Lian Hearn (from 10/1/06 Series Swap on BSL)
Owed to AM10000: - From April 06 Erotica swap: Vampire Fangs and Venom
- From Aug 06 ALS swap: Angel With Attitude
- From Sept 06 Magnificent Manga swap: Magic Knight Rayearth 1-3
- From Sept 06 Paranormal swap: I'm the Vampire That's Why!
- From Feb 07 ALS swap: What Dreams May Come
nursiegirl42 - January 17, 2008 08:58 PM (GMT)
I know I have two books coming from her but I think it was more like 4 and I just wrote them off as well cuz I was TIRED OF WAITING!!
I personally dont have an issue with Rhonda but... I think the number of books she owes people is RIDICULIOUS and thats putting it nicely! I was just saying to another BO'er the other day how I didnt understand how people just let her off and other people get rolled over the coals who owe no where near this many books..
As for her life.. we all have good times and bad she isnt the only one but we all manage to somehow fulfill our obligations.. I think she should do the same.. there have been many times I have offered a book and never got around to reading it and just sent it off... I think she has enough books to occupy her for the rest of her life where she could send some of the books owed for more than a year on to the people waiting on them..
As for people making her no one can but in my opinion it kinda shows what kind of person you are when you can keep accepting books from people but you cant send out what you owe people!
AlterEgoZoe - January 17, 2008 09:01 PM (GMT)
This is what Sand owes in the Horror VBB. Redhot-brat, I do have the House of Doors by Brian Lumley, to offer in place of the one Sand owes you. PM me if you'd like to have it.
Round 1Blue World by Robert R. McCammon (SandDanz--> wss4)
Hot Blood #8: Kiss and Kill ed. by Jeff Gelb (SandDanz --> redhot-brat)
Wither by J.G. Passarella (SandDanz --> redhot-brat)
Blackstone Chronicles #1: An Eye for an Eye: The Doll by John Saul (SandDanz --> rebeccajames)*
Blackstone Chronicles #2: Twist of Fate: The Locket by John Saul (SandDanz --> rebeccajames)*
Blackstone Chronicles #3: Ashes to Ashes: The Dragon’s Flame by John Saul (SandDanz --> rebeccajames)*
Blackstone Chronicles #4: In the Shadow of Evil: The Handkerchief by John Saul (SandDanz --> rebeccajames)*
Blackstone Chronicles #5: The Day of Reckoning: The Stereoscope by John Saul (SandDanz --> rebeccajames)*
Blackstone Chronicles #6: Asylum by John Saul (SandDanz --> rebeccajames)*
Crimson Kiss by Trisha Baker (Sand --> AM10000)
Round 2Killing Me Softly edited by Gardner R. Dozois (Sand --> Tribefan)
*
Books of Blood Volume 1 by Clive Barker (SandDanz---> Redhot-Brat)
*
House of Doors #1: The House of Doors by Brian Lumley (SandDanz--> Redhot-Brat)
~~~~~~~~~~
I know Sand owes me a book from 6 or 7 rounds back in the Sci-fi/Fantasy VBB which I've given up on.
CheriePie - January 17, 2008 09:23 PM (GMT)
Though it's pointed to in the top-most post, this is a history of the conversations about this issue, as pasted from the
Pay It Forward thread.
| QUOTE (EllyMae58 @ Jan 16 2008, 06:21 PM) |
I'm still waiting on Sophie by Guy Burt from SandDanz from Round TWO of the Teen VBB. If anyone happens across a copy of that, I'd be right grateful, as I'm still very interested in reading it. I'd pretty much given up on getting *any* of the books Sand promised me, but I'd still like to find that one.
Thanks in advance. :) |
| QUOTE (CheriePie @ Jan 16 2008, 06:24 PM) |
:sigh: I was hoping that there'd be some decision by now about how to handle Sand's books because I hate to add them all to this list, but yeah I can see if it's something you really want and are waiting on it. (The mods have been discussing it offline.)
Let me ask Cheesy if she's made a decision yet and if not, I'll add your book to the list above. Thanks! |
| QUOTE (EllyMae58 @ Jan 16 2008, 07:28 PM) |
| Well, the list of books I gave up on went back several years, which I gave up on getting them all a long time ago. There was another book she still owed me from the teen VBB, but I obtained it elsewhere and sent her a note. |
| QUOTE (CheriePie @ Jan 16 2008, 08:32 PM) |
Yeah and that's exactly why I didn't want to automatically put all the books SandDanz owes up here. It'd just take over the list... and it's not like she doesn't have the books. She does, just no current means to get them all sent out. I know that at one point, ctgmom and a few other friends went in to help her get it all organized and based on the pictures I saw, she can actually find stuff as it's fairly well organized and on shelves now.
So anyway, I'm going to put that book up in the top list for now, but I also asked Cheesy if maybe she can coordinate getting that one for you right from Sand. :) |
| QUOTE (wss4 @ Jan 16 2008, 09:33 PM) |
Just my two cents on the Sand situation.
She currently owes me 5 books from various VBBs and a trade.
I also happen to owe her 5 books, one of which was a loan, one from a VBB and past swaps.
I contacted her and offered her an out. We would both hold on to the books that we owe each other and call it even, thus eliminating the books she owes me from the VBBS and the one I owe her from a VBB.
She never got back with me. I sent the message through others as well and know that she got it, responded to it by mentioning the one loaner, but never dealt with it.
I know Sand is having problems and I can understand that, but I personally think she needs to deal with this whole book owed situation. It is not really fair that the majority of the books she owes are slowly being written off simply because folks know that they will never see them, therefore go out and get them elsewhere or just tell her to forget it. She got books in exchange for all the books she owes. She should at least have the consideration to deal with this in some fashion.
I don't mean to come down on Sand or make anyone mad. But it all just seems very unfair to me, the way we tiptoe around the books she owes, while calling others on owed books. :shrug: |
| QUOTE (cheesygiraffe @ Jan 16 2008, 10:12 PM) |
| She isn't in anymore VBBs or Swaps. I can only relay the message, I can't make her do anything. No it isn't fair but what else can I do? :shrug: |
| QUOTE (fantasy221 @ Jan 16 2008, 11:08 PM) |
No you definitely can't and you shouldn't feel like you've been put in the position of enforcing Sand's book debt. I think it's just frustrating for all involved and even though Sand pops in every couple of months to say that she hasn't forgotten about the books she owes, I personally haven't seen any evidence of those books being sent out (though I could, of course, be wrong).
I guess I just feel like at this point Sand should either come up with some kind of firm plan to send out 2 books a month (or something) and let all of us know so that she's more accountable or just definitively give up on trying to send the books so that those of us who are waiting can look for them in other places. That to me is the worst part - knowing that theoretically you should be getting a book in the mail, but not knowing when or if it will ever show up.
Unfortunately, none of us can make her do anything and when she doesn't respond, we're just left to wonder. |
| QUOTE (CheriePie @ Jan 17 2008, 02:16 AM) |
Fantasy, I completely agree with your 2 books a month idea. That kind of goal, as "baby steps" as it seems, makes the whole picture of how many books she owes not look so daunting.
I took many courses several years back in how to deal with stress and stressful situations, and when you're overworked and have so much to do that you feel like you can't put a dent in it, and the solution is nearly always to make to do's and set goals for yourself in reasonable amounts, rather than looking at the whole picture all the time and letting it overwhelm you.
Sand is so much younger than me and thus obviously isn't as familiar with such techniques, but they really do work and I'm living proof of that. You don't know how many times breaking down stuff like this has saved me from a nervous breakdown, particularly when I worked in the software development field.
I wanted to just add my :2cents: on that point as well, just in case she does she this... |
| QUOTE (PepperVL @ Jan 17 2008, 02:43 AM) |
I agree. It was probably not even a year ago that I was completely overwhelmed by my owed books pile, and I kept not mailing things out because OMG I couldn't afford to mail them all.
It wasn't until I realized that I didn't have to mail them all at once that I started making progress and now I'm much more caught up and getting most books out within 2-3 months of them being promised instead of 6 or 7 or 8 or more months.
It took realizing that though I could not afford a $100 or so trip to the post office I COULD afford to spend $2.13 every week or two to mail out one book to get me started though. |
| QUOTE (wss4 @ Jan 17 2008, 06:59 AM) |
I definitely did not mean to make you feel that you are in any way responsible Cheesy. I appreciate the fact that you let me know that she at least did respond in some fashion. Neither you or anyone else on this board has any responsibility for what Sand is or is not doing, other than Sand.
I suppose it is just frustrating to me to know that she was offered an out and does not even have the consideration to at least respond. I don't care if she said "No I don't want to do it because one of the books included is a loaner." But she did not even have the consideration to respond at all. I don't need the books she owes me. I have already gotten them elsewhere or will get them elsewhere, but I am not going to let her off the hook either like so many others are, because it is not fair.
Anyways, I have made my opinion known, as I always tend to do and that is it.
I just get annoyed at the way everyone seems to 'forgive' Sand her huge book debt, while slowly but surely that debt is being erased by others who are not in any way responsible for it. Meanwhile Sand does not have the consideration to respond.
I myself have been, am, and probably always will be a bit behind in mailing books. I don't make a lot of money and I have three kids to support. But I play, I pay. I manage to mail at least a few books every week. I have a responsibility to meet the obligation that I created. I just think that everyone else, including Sand, should have that same responsibility. |
| QUOTE (camis @ Jan 17 2008, 07:33 AM) |
:ditto:
I agree with you Wendy - I guess I'm lucky in that I think I'm only owed one book from Sand but I'm resigned to never receiving it. It was from a VBB on the Relay site so there is no record of it now anyway. The thing that really annoys me though is that it was a book for my daughter - not for me. |
| QUOTE (EllyMae58 @ Jan 17 2008, 09:15 AM) |
Wendy, I just want to say that I haven't "forgiven" her book debt. I have done book trading with Sand for years and know from experience that getting the books from her is unlikely. Anytime she promised one to me, or I accepted one from her, I'd hope for the best, but if the opportunity arose to get the book elsewhere, I'd take it. I finally just quit accepting her books (in VBBs etc) altogether.
I love her to death, don't get me wrong, she's a good person, but it seems she likes to acquire the books more than actually reading them, and then when she does read she would put newer promised books ahead of older promised books, which bugged me to no end.
That's about all I'm going to say about that, because I feel weird having this discussion and she's not here to tell her side.
Oh, and I don't know about anyone else, but not only are owed books not being sent, but she's not made journal entries on books I've sent her, even though I know she's received them. I know she's online and I even tried to make it easy on her and sent her the BCIDs. :shrug: |
| QUOTE (AlterEgoZoe @ Jan 17 2008, 02:39 PM) |
I think I made a comment about this. I sent her a book (I believe fall of 2005 or 2006), PM'd the BCID to her, and it was never journalled. The odd thing is I remember her PMing me that she got the book, but never JE'd the book. :shrug:
Cherie (and Danes), I'll PMing you in a few. I think I made a boo-boo for one of the books I put in a VBB (in which Danes took out). :blush: |
| QUOTE (lizziwhizz @ Jan 17 2008, 03:13 PM) |
| QUOTE (EllyMae58 @ Jan 17 2008, 09:15 AM) | | That's about all I'm going to say about that, because I feel weird having this discussion and she's not here to tell her side. |
Don't feel weird about it. No one has said anything hurtful when she's not here to defend herself, so you don't need to feel bad (imo). Feel that people are reading and learning, and that's important too.
|
wss4 - January 17, 2008 10:07 PM (GMT)
You can just write off the books that she owes me from the various VBBs.
SandDanz -- A.K.A. Goddess (Silhouette Bombshell) By Evelyn Vaughn --Romance VBB
*SandDanz -- After Midnight by Teresa Medeiros --Romance VBB
*SandDanz -- Bitten & Smitten by Michelle Rowen -- Trade
*SandDanz -- Blue World by Robert R. McCammon -- Horror VBB
*SandDanz -- Young Wizards #4: A Wizard Abroad by Diane Duane -- Sci-fi/Fantasy VBB
I have decided that since she has not responded to my offer I am going to take it upon myself to call it even. I owe her one book from a VBB
Growing Wings by Laurel Winter -- SandDanz * Teen VBB
which I am going to ask to be removed from the owed thread. I also owe her a few books from swaps which I won't be sending, to even it out.
So just remove anything that she owes me.
wss4 - January 17, 2008 10:17 PM (GMT)
Since I tend the out of play lists for the Sci-fi/Fantasy & Mystery VBBs I will list the books that she owe from those and folks can decide rather they still want the books or not.
Sc-fi Fantasy VBB
Round 2 - July 2006
The Earthsea Cycle Book 5: The Other Wind by Ursula K. LeGuin (SandDanz --> malagan)
Round 3 - September 2006
*Probe Book 1: Probe by Carole Nelson Douglas (SandDanz --> AsterW)
Dragonheart by Charles Edward Pogue (SandDanz --> AsterW)
Tag, the Cat #2: The Golden Cat by Gabriel King (SandDanz --> AlterEgoZoe)
Round 5 - January 2007
*The Dubious Hills by Pamela Dean (Tribefan --> Xeyra) mailed to SandDanz for M-bag 2/13/07
Mystery VBB
Round 2: July 2006
*4th of July by James Patterson (SandDanz --> Morsecode) mailed to morsie via Breeze on bookmooch
* Burned by Carol Higgins Clark (SandDanz --> Suefitz)
Round 3: August 2006
** Stalker by Faye Kellerman (SandDanz --> LadyJanet)
*To the Nines by Janet Evanovich (SandDanz -- Suefitz)
*Blown Away by David Wiltse (SandDanz --> Pyan)
The Silver Arrowhead by Joseph A. West (Sand --> Shaunie)
*Lifeguard by James Patterson (SandDanz --> FranciJo)
Round 6: November 2006
*Dalziel and Pascoe #20: Dialogues of the Dead by Reginald Hill (Sand --> Famfatale)
Round 7 - January 2007
*Digital Fortress by Dan Brown (Sand --> redhot-brat)
*Puss In Boots by Ed McBain (Sand --> Suefitz)
**Spenser # 10: The Widening Gyre by Robert B. Parker (Sand --> Potok-fan)
The rest that she owed in the mystery VBB have been replaced by Giz via BookMooch.
lizziwhizz - January 17, 2008 10:24 PM (GMT)
from the Audio Book Box
A Million Little Pieces by James Frey (SandDanz --->Alsgal)
Manhunt by Janet Evanovich, SandDanz-->Shaunie
I am going to remove these audiobooks owed from over a year ago from the audio owed list.
There is an audio owed to Sand by Missyz from quite a while ago; I am going to delete this from the owed list as I feel time has come that we're not responsible for keeping track of books owed to Sand.
appaloosatb - January 17, 2008 10:31 PM (GMT)
From the Teen VBB:
The Stranger by Caroline B. Cooney (SandDanz --> Appa)
Brian's Saga #2: The River by Gary Paulsen (Sand --> appa)
Brian's Saga #3: Brian's Winter by Gary Paulsen (Sand --> appa)
Charlie's Raven by Jean Craighead George (Sand --> appaloosatb)
Thunder from the Sea by Joan Hiatt Harlow (Sand --> appaloosatb)
Up a Road Slowly by Irene Hunt (Sand --> Appa)
From the Parnormal VBB:
Anita Blake #11: Cerulean Sins by Laurell K. Hamilton (SandDanz --> Appaloosatb)
AlterEgoZoe - January 17, 2008 11:01 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (wss4 @ Jan 17 2008, 06:07 PM) |
*SandDanz -- Blue World by Robert R. McCammon -- Horror VBB
So just remove anything that she owes me. |
I removed this from the Horror VBB out of play thread. :ph34r:
CdnBlueRose - January 17, 2008 11:44 PM (GMT)
I took this one off the first post because Cherie has it for the mbag, so Amber will get it..... if I did wrong, whip me......
Chintz n China #1: Ghost of a Chance by Yasmine Galenorn (TBR) (SandDanz --> Amberkatze)
w/Cherie for m-bag cheesygiraffe - January 17, 2008 11:47 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (CdnBlueRose @ Jan 17 2008, 05:44 PM) |
I took this one off the first post because Cherie has it for the mbag, so Amber will get it..... if I did wrong, whip me......
Chintz n China #1: Ghost of a Chance by Yasmine Galenorn (TBR) (SandDanz --> Amberkatze) w/Cherie for m-bag |
I just IMed Cherie and she does have it. Thanks Rosie. :kiss:
Can I :whip: ya anyway? :whistle:
CdnBlueRose - January 17, 2008 11:53 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (cheesygiraffe @ Jan 17 2008, 04:47 PM) |
| QUOTE (CdnBlueRose @ Jan 17 2008, 05:44 PM) | I took this one off the first post because Cherie has it for the mbag, so Amber will get it..... if I did wrong, whip me......
Chintz n China #1: Ghost of a Chance by Yasmine Galenorn (TBR) (SandDanz --> Amberkatze) w/Cherie for m-bag |
I just IMed Cherie and she does have it. Thanks Rosie. :kiss:
Can I :whip: ya anyway? :whistle:
|
I was hoping..... :whistle: :wink: :hug:
AceofHearts - January 18, 2008 12:25 AM (GMT)
my :2cents:
I am owed a book from Round 2 in the Romance VBB. Do I need this book? NO
Do I want to let her off the hook? NO. Do I want to have someone else mail the book to me in replacement? NO that just isn't fair. A real dilemma.
Sand is not the only one but just the worst offender. I could say more but I would just get myself into more trouble :)
fantasy221 - January 18, 2008 12:26 AM (GMT)
So in addition to listing the books owed by Sand, I thought it might be useful to have a discussion to try and come up with some kind of contingency plan for if Sand doesn't follow through on her commitments. Do we want to just let the chips fall where they may and whoever happens to get a book from her, gets one and the others are just out of luck? Should we forgive her book debt and just wipe the slate clean? Should we wait a certain amount of time then open up this list to the same kind of 'pay it forward' generosity as the books on the other list?
Anyone with ideas, I'd like to hear them (and I think I speak for the other mods/admins as well).
eta: I have my own thoughts about what I'd like to see happen and will share them at some point. I was just throwing out some ideas above - I certainly don't advocate all (any?) of them - was really just trying to get a dialogue started.
AceofHearts - January 18, 2008 12:30 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (fantasy221 @ Jan 17 2008, 07:26 PM) |
Should we forgive her book debt and just wipe the slate clean?
Anyone with ideas, I'd like to hear them (and I think I speak for the other mods/admins as well). |
Wipe the slate clean? As in if she wishes to join in again and start this accumulating all over? NO
catsalive - January 18, 2008 12:31 AM (GMT)
I'm sure fantasy will be along some time but I just took these from the
Romance VBB out of play list:
Current as of January 4 :) Round 1Girl Cook by Hannah McCouch (
SandDanz ---NMZ)
Round 2*
If Only It Were True by Marc Levy (
SandDanz--> AceofHearts)
*
Falling for Mr. Wrong by Caroline Upcher (
SandDanz --> terrafreaky)
Nerd Gone Wild by Vicki Lewis Thompson (
SandDanz ---> Kyri)
Simply Divine by Wendy Holden (
SandDanz -- NMZ)
Round 4*
Babyface by Fiona Gibson (
SandDanz --> Ri)
Round 5*
After Midnight by Teresa Medeiros (
Sand --> wss4)
*
A.K.A. Goddess (Silhouette Bombshell) By Evelyn Vaughn (
Sand --> wss4)
*
Body Heat by Carly Phillips (
Sand --> Terra)
Fishbowl by Sarah Mlynowski (
Sand --> KarinAlyssa)
The Dewey Decimal System of Love by Josephine Carr (
Sand --> KarinAlyssa)
Through a Dark Mist by Marsha Canham (
Sand --> Sidney1220)
I'm With Cupid by Diane Stingley (
Sand---NMZ)
Round 6Diamond in the Ruff by Emily Carmichael (
Sand --> Shaunesay)
Milk in My Coffee by Eric Jerome Dickey (
Sand--> mellonhead)
*
Lisa Maria's Guide for the Perplexed by Susan Hubbard (
Sand --> KarinAlyssa)
*
Clearing the Aisle by Karen Schwartz (
Sand --> Nursiegirl)
The Corset Diaries by Katie MacAlister (TBR) (
Sand --> Bookgal)
Mailed by giz Round 7My Lurid Past by Lauren Henderson (
Sand --> Famfatale)
Round 9Body Movers by Stephanie Bond (
Sand - TBR --> Noumena12)
A Little Change of Face by Lauren Baratz-Logsted (
Sand --> catsalive)
Round 10When Good Things Happen to Bad Boys by Lori Foster, Erin McCarthy, HelenKay Dimon (
Sand -- > terrafreaky)
Round 12**
Down With Love by Barbara Novak (
Sand --> daughterofcokie)
Forced Mate by Rowena Cherry (
Sand ---> Juliet)
catsalive - January 18, 2008 12:32 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (catsalive @ Jan 18 2008, 11:31 AM) |
| I'm sure fantasy will be along some time but I just took these from the Romance VBB out of play list: |
Fantasy, You must have posted while I copied this :blush:
fantasy221 - January 18, 2008 12:35 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (AceofHearts @ Jan 17 2008, 07:25 PM) |
my :2cents:
I am owed a book from Round 2 in the Romance VBB. Do I need this book? NO
Do I want to let her off the hook? NO. Do I want to have someone else mail the book to me in replacement? NO that just isn't fair. A real dilemma.
Sand is not the only one but just the worst offender. I could say more but I would just get myself into more trouble :) |
I know a lot of people don't like speaking ill of other people, but I really think everyone should be able to say what it is that they think. We're not going to be able to figure out a solution that everyone is okay with if people don't pipe up and say what they think.
Sand may be the worst offender, but she's definitely not the only one. To my mind, the more we discuss, the better of an idea we can have with how to deal with situations like this, so that hopefully we can nip someone else in the bud before they reach Sand's status.
fantasy221 - January 18, 2008 12:36 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (catsalive @ Jan 17 2008, 07:32 PM) |
| QUOTE (catsalive @ Jan 18 2008, 11:31 AM) | | I'm sure fantasy will be along some time but I just took these from the Romance VBB out of play list: |
Fantasy, You must have posted while I copied this :blush:
|
Thanks for posting that! No worries!
AceofHearts - January 18, 2008 12:44 AM (GMT)
Just thought of something kinda funny, looking at the list we all in the same boat. there isn't a person in any VBB who has not been hit :rolleyes:
CheriePie - January 18, 2008 12:46 AM (GMT)
Awesomely! I'm glad this is all getting discussed and hashed out here! :thumbsup:
My thoughts....
Well, I definitely think that coordinating this list and getting it all in a single place may potentially help Sand out of the hole she's in if she's willing to make good on her obligations. If you were in her shoes and didn't really have a handle on who you owed what, and from how many different places you had to cull that information, that in itself is quite daunting! So everyone's contributions here will make for a single resource which to point her.
We touched on this in the other forum but I think that with this list in place, for Sand to make a commitment to get out like 2 books a month from her owed stack would be a great start. Yes, it seems like small potatoes now, but even baby steps eventually get you to your intended destination. And I hope that if she is willing to do this, it will show good faith on her part as well.
On the other side of the coin, I don't know about others, but I feel good about it by knowing that we're doing all we can, without necessarily letting her off the hook, but to help her to accomplish what might seem like an extremely scary goal. I know that she made a huge leap in getting her library organized and shelved to begin with, so I would hope that finding just 2 books per month—any 2 books from the above lists—can be made easier by having this information all in one place for her.
Is this all what will happen? I don't know, but as I said, I believe that this is definitely a step in the right direction and is extremely conducive to reaching the intended goal. :grin:
HoserLauren - January 18, 2008 12:47 AM (GMT)
I am not owed books by Sand, but am owed books by some other "offenders". This is really a tough call.
Unfortunately, the solution I have to offer won't affect Sand since she is no longer here, and that solution is not to allow people that owe so many books to participate in anymore swaps or VBBs. Honestly, if you can't keep up with sending books and owe books over 8+ months, then you should not be participating in VBBs and swaps, you should be catching up on your reading!!
I know there are rules in the VBBs to start this, but so far I haven't seen these rules enforced. :shrug:
ETA I was talking to chambjd and was told that these rules are indeed enforced, just enforced discreetly so people like me don't know :lol:
When people leave the site it's a completely different story. I don't think that they should be forgiven their debts. But, what can we really do?? Can we march over to Sand's place and start pulling out all the books that she owes? (haha, interesting mental picture)
The only thing we can do in this circumstance is to not allow them to come back with a "clean slate" as was mentioned before.
CdnBlueRose - January 18, 2008 12:50 AM (GMT)
I agree with much of what Fantasy already said. There are a couple of points I'd like to make:
1. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Sand's slate should be wiped clean. What I think is that it would be nice if people could get the books they still want from this list. What many people do, and Sand would probably do if and when she returns, is offer alternative books to replace any books owed that people have found elsewhere or no longer want for whatever reason. This is what I did when I had myself in a serious owed book situation (which I am almost completely caught up on, BTW), and I know of others here who have done the same.
2. The intention is to get all the info on this particular situation into ONE place - if people 'donate' books to help out, I think that should be marked on the list, but not actually removed. That way, if/when Sand returns she has a complete list and knows who sent what to whom - though I'm fairly sure Sand has a complete list of what she owes everyone, our list will show updates that help her sort things out.
3. I don't think anyone wants to see this become a gripe thread, as that resolves nothing. What we need is everyone's ideas and/or suggestions on resolution and prevention of such a situation arising again. The 6 month rule instituted in most of the VBB's should help significantly and is a good start. What else can we do?
yourotherleft - January 18, 2008 01:17 AM (GMT)
Here's what she owes me...
Teen VBB:
Round 3:
Imani All Mine by Connie Rose Porter (Sand --> yourotherleft)
Round 4:
Boy Meets Boy by David Levithan (Sand - TBR --> yourotherleft)
Round 12:
**Stotan! by Chris Crutcher (Sand --> yourotherleft)
EllyMae58 - January 18, 2008 01:23 AM (GMT)
What I'm wondering about, is this issue making Rhonda hide from us? I mean, it appears that she, among others, have disappeared from this site, but are still quite active on others. (Rhonda on Pogo, and I've heard about others on MySpace, FaceBook, etc.) Is it just a matter of being embarrassed, or are they really just not wanting to face up to the issue of (basically) being deadbeat bookhoarders?
I know that life happens. It's life, it sneaks up on the best of us, but it happens. We've all been there and can certainly empathize. But why hide from us?
I always thought that Rhonda was in way over her head and it would catch up to her eventually.
You know, maybe I'd be more willing to "forgive" her trespasses if she'd make an appearance and at least show she's making an effort. Even a plea for postage if she'd package the books and go to the post office AND journal the books of mine that she has would be something. :shrug:
nvangel2073 - January 18, 2008 01:28 AM (GMT)
I'm having a book sent to pyan through PBS
Blown Away by David Wiltse (SandDanz --> Pyan)
ladiibbug - January 18, 2008 01:35 AM (GMT)
Re: Sand's Owed Books
Do book rays stalled with Sand count? If so, she's had this one of Club Vlad (B/C yahoo paranormal group) for a year:
#2 Sazi, Moon's Web - Adams/ClampSand is due to send this ray to CandyDarling in Finland (intl. postage). At least CandyD is the last reader.
I owe Sand two books going back a year. Because of the circumstances with books Sand owes, I have not been able to get myself to send them to her. Probably petty of me *sigh*, but I just haven't been able to get past the feelings.
I guess my owing Sand books has nothing to do with books she owes ... I do owe them to her. So, if anyone can PM me her address, I guess I'll send them. :shrug: It just doesn't seem right for her to get more books when she owes such a huge amount. But maybe that's beside the point if books are owed her? :shrug:
AceofHearts - January 18, 2008 01:56 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (ladiibbug @ Jan 17 2008, 08:35 PM) |
Because of the circumstances with books Sand owes, I have not been able to get myself to send them to her. Probably petty of me *sigh*, but I just haven't been able to get past the feelings.
I guess my owing Sand books has nothing to do with books she owes ... I do owe them to her. So, if anyone can PM me her address, I guess I'll send them. :shrug: It just doesn't seem right for her to get more books when she owes such a huge amount. But maybe that's beside the point if books are owed her? :shrug: |
I don't agree. Why should you send her books if she owes you books. Call it a draw.
I myself have a book owed to someone I won't be sending until I receive their two books they owe me.
Upon reflection, I don't need Sand's book and she has given me a RABCK or two , so cancel me off the list.
In general, there will always be some abuse of the system due to the fact that there will always be people whose 'eyes' are bigger than either their reading abilities or budget. Of course, there will always be some hoarders also. I don't think there is anything to be done but what is already in place
nursiegirl42 - January 18, 2008 03:19 AM (GMT)
Personally she owes ALOT of books we aren't talking 20 or 30 she's probably over 100 books owed!!! IMO 2 books a month isnt enough.. it would still take her over 4 years to mail them all.. She has owed some books OVER a year her life hasnt been nonstop chaos for over a year so Im not buying that at all!
shaunesay - January 18, 2008 03:51 AM (GMT)
The Silver Arrowhead by Joseph A. West (Sand --> Shaunie)
This one was received last year in Ohio, so you can take it off.
and anything else she owes me can be forgotten as well. She's had a lot going on, and I'm sure this is the least of her worries.
fantasy221 - January 18, 2008 04:15 AM (GMT)
just to clarify two things:
1) When I said the thing about sending out 2 books a month, it was really just to illustrate that I thought people would more forgiving if they could see she was making an attempt to send out something regularly. It definitely wasn't a suggestion that 2 books a month was all she should attempt to do. I just picked a number.
2) Just to be clear, I am not advocating that we wipe the slate clean with her, and I don't think anyone else is either. Again, it was an option I threw out there to foster discussion.
As for what I think, I'm definitely not as charitable as people like Cherie. I generally feel like we're all adults here and should be able to keep track of what we owe on our own without other people having to do the work of putting together lists, but whatever. I'm also not at all convinced that by doing all of this, Sand will actually get on the ball and start sending stuff out.
I wouldn't want to see people start to offer to send out replacement books for what she owes because I dont think that's fair, even though I know how generous everyone is, but I also don't want people to continue to wait indefinitely. I guess what I'd really like is some kind of definitive response from Sand saying whether or not she can realistically send out all/some/any of the books she owes. At this point, I'd accept it if she said, "I'm very sorry, but I just dont think I'm going to be able to send out any of the books I owe." At least that way I'd know for sure, as would everyone else, rather than saying 'well I know I'm owed this book by her, and she pops in once every couple of months to reacknowledge that, so I'll just keep waiting, in case next month is my month.' It's the not knowing, the no word either way, that annoys me the most.
giz-angel - January 18, 2008 08:49 AM (GMT)
I think this has become more of an issue since Sand stopped coming here, because people feel she has left the site owing a ton of books rather than just being behind with mailing books. I think if Sand came back and stated what the situ was, a lot of people would feel a bit better about it.
I have replaced some books - partly because I wanted to tidy the books out of play thread for the mystery VBB, partly because I have got behind myself in the past, and I know how horrible it feels, so I wanted to help Sand, and also because I genuinely feel she has the intention of making good on her obligations. But I take on what others have said about letting people off - it's not even handed of me just to replace Sand's books, when other people are waiting for owed books from other members. And why should some members be let off?
My ideal solution? Well I am owed little I think, but I would like Sand to come back to the site and make up books gradually, and communicate with everyone - I would far rather she was HERE and owing books than NOT here because she feels like running away.
I also think (I am saying too much - soz) that we need to get this resolved to move forward. If we let this lapse into PMs and behind the scenes discussions, it will fester.
CdnBlueRose - January 18, 2008 01:53 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (giz-angel @ Jan 18 2008, 01:49 AM) |
I think this has become more of an issue since Sand stopped coming here, because people feel she has left the site owing a ton of books rather than just being behind with mailing books. I think if Sand came back and stated what the situ was, a lot of people would feel a bit better about it.
I have replaced some books - partly because I wanted to tidy the books out of play thread for the mystery VBB, partly because I have got behind myself in the past, and I know how horrible it feels, so I wanted to help Sand, and also because I genuinely feel she has the intention of making good on her obligations. But I take on what others have said about letting people off - it's not even handed of me just to replace Sand's books, when other people are waiting for owed books from other members. And why should some members be let off?
My ideal solution? Well I am owed little I think, but I would like Sand to come back to the site and make up books gradually, and communicate with everyone - I would far rather she was HERE and owing books than NOT here because she feels like running away.
I also think (I am saying too much - soz) that we need to get this resolved to move forward. If we let this lapse into PMs and behind the scenes discussions, it will fester. |
I agree - I totally wish Sand would come back!! I miss her around here!! I suspect at least part of the reason she doesn't come around is because this situation is stressful and she feels badly about it, but as it's her choice not to discuss it, what can we do?
I can think of at least one other person who has owed books for an extended period of time - and we need something to happen with her as well. Sand's list has come up first because it's the bigger one, and she hasn't been addressing it. I would truly like to see anyone who has owed books from 6 months plus make their own post, with their own list, and acknowledge their book debt and how they're dealing with it (or how they can't deal with it right now, or whatever). If that happens, people know where they stand and don't get so annoyed and resentful. And, hey, if someone can't meet their obligations and needs help - just ask! This is a good group of people and we can work on coming up with solutions.
lizziwhizz - January 18, 2008 02:55 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (CdnBlueRose @ Jan 18 2008, 08:53 AM) |
| I agree - I totally wish Sand would come back!! I miss her around here!! I suspect at least part of the reason she doesn't come around is because this situation is stressful and she feels badly about it, but as it's her choice not to discuss it, what can we do? |
As devil's advocate, I'd like to defend Sand for not being around. While I think an update post once in a while (like, in this thread, reporting books mailed :whistle: ) would be appropriate, I can understand her desire to stay away. And not necessarily because of bad feelings.
Sand clearly has a self-control problem when it comes to acquiring books--whether you call it "hoarding" or "addictive behavior", the point is that she has difficulty maintaining her self control. I can see how maintaining constant presence on this forum would be a battle for her; we can -say- "just post on the chitchat", but in practice it wouldn't be that easy. Seeing all the bookboxes, exchanges, swaps, etc, would probably be very enticing--like putting an alcoholic in a bar, if you will?
It may just be that for Sand to control herself, she has to take drastic measures. Not everyone can overcome addiction and be in situations where they can "just say no". For silly but semi-serious example, I used to work in a fabric store to "support" myself while in college. Of course I didn't support anything but my fabric stash, despite the fact that there was no way I could ever sew up all that fabric. I have boxes and boxes of fabric, even after purging a LOT of it before moving. I recently had the opportunity to work in a fabric store for a while to supplement my income, and I had to be mature and smart and just say NO. I knew there was no way I could do it! :rolleyes: :lol: I have not solved my bad habit of buying fabric I can't possibly use; but I keep myself out of situations where I would abuse that bad habit.
Back 'round the big circle to Sand--she may feel that she has not really conquered her habit, and the only way for her to keep from making it worse is to just stay away. And while she's fun to have around...well, so is my uncle, but if I were going out to a bar I wouldn't invite him! It sounds harsh, but I don't want her to come back if she would have to be constantly fighting herself.
That said, a post here once in a while and reply to PMs, etc, to solve the backlog is very reasonable.
Amberkatze - January 18, 2008 03:02 PM (GMT)
I am really lucky that the books Sand owed me were passed onto Cherie for the Mbag. Others haven't been lucky though.
I didn't realise there was a situation before I starting playing in Swaps and Vbbs here and I hate naming and shaming but I think it would be really wise to let new people know who the 'repeat offenders' are.
After playing a round or 2 of the Paranormal Vbb and being on BO for a few weeks I saw the amount of books Sand owed and saw some post about it. Then I felt really cheated in a way because if I had known in advance I wouldn't have taken books out of the box that were from her.
As I said I don't like naming and shaming but maybe even a small pm to new players as a warning wouldn't go a miss. Unless of course we do make a list for everyone to see. Which is actually happening anyway because people are posting what is owed and by who.
I also can't believe that anybody let it go that far. I don't think anyone is to blame here except the community as a whole. If we see something like this happening we shouldn't keep our mouths shut but be active straight away and tell people they are not allowed to play anymore and remove any books they have in play from the box so no more 'debts' can build up.
Just my little view...maybe I worded something wrong...I am sure I will find out soon enough if someone jumps on me
:wink:
PepperVL - January 18, 2008 04:58 PM (GMT)
I think Lizzi might have a lot of it as to why Sand stays away from this site.
I am hoping to go down to Louisville sometime in the next couple of months to visit a friend down there - and the last time I did that I got together with Rhonda & Laura for lunch. I also know that Rhonda was planning on going to the reader/author get-together in June.
If Rhonda wants to give me the books she owes to people in the US I also owe books to, or who I regularly end up owing books to, I'm willing to add them to my packages when I send them out. Even adding just one book to an international package can significantly up the cost, so unfortunately I can't do that, but I am willing to add a few books to domestic media rate packages.
Just glancing over the list at the top, that would cover:
Appa
Rebecca (who I would hand deliver to!)
Tribe
Morsie
Brat
Kyri
AM100
Fantasy
It wouldn't be much additional cost to me, because most of these people I'm sending books to anyway, so it'll just be a little extra postage and I'm willing to do that.
CdnBlueRose - January 18, 2008 05:01 PM (GMT)
That's a great idea, Pepper, and good of you to offer. Hope that works out. :)
wss4 - January 18, 2008 05:05 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Amberkatze @ Jan 18 2008, 11:02 AM) |
I also can't believe that anybody let it go that far. I don't think anyone is to blame here except the community as a whole. If we see something like this happening we shouldn't keep our mouths shut but be active straight away and tell people they are not allowed to play anymore and remove any books they have in play from the box so no more 'debts' can build up.
|
You are 100 percent right Amber. That is exactly why I posted about this in the other thread. It has gone on way too long and no one ever bothered to address it publicly. It was always passed off as --"Oh well, it is Sand so we won't worry about it."
Maybe by starting this conversation we can not only deal with Sand's situation, but others as well. Sand is not the only person who has essentially disappeared from this site without meeting their obligations.
I have seen a few other suspicious folks who tend to take a lot but not mail out in return.
The way we work our swaps and VBBS leaves a lot of room for not so nice folks to take advantage and we need some way to fix that problem.
CdnBlueRose - January 18, 2008 05:21 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (wss4 @ Jan 18 2008, 10:05 AM) |
| QUOTE (Amberkatze @ Jan 18 2008, 11:02 AM) |
I also can't believe that anybody let it go that far. I don't think anyone is to blame here except the community as a whole. If we see something like this happening we shouldn't keep our mouths shut but be active straight away and tell people they are not allowed to play anymore and remove any books they have in play from the box so no more 'debts' can build up.
|
You are 100 percent right Amber. That is exactly why I posted about this in the other thread. It has gone on way too long and no one ever bothered to address it publicly. It was always passed off as --"Oh well, it is Sand so we won't worry about it."
Maybe by starting this conversation we can not only deal with Sand's situation, but others as well. Sand is not the only person who has essentially disappeared from this site without meeting their obligations.
I have seen a few other suspicious folks who tend to take a lot but not mail out in return.
The way we work our swaps and VBBS leaves a lot of room for not so nice folks to take advantage and we need some way to fix that problem.
|
True...... the 6 month rules in the VBB's should help, but I don't know what we can do about swaps as there's no tracking done on those. Any ideas?? The best I can come up with right now is that people need to at least make the moderators aware of anyone who is getting behind. We do have a list of "deadbeats" from the exchanges as well and try to ensure that anyone who hasn't followed through on sending an exchange package is barred from future exchanges until they make good.
giz-angel - January 18, 2008 06:24 PM (GMT)
I agree - no one wants to come out and say they think so and so is falling behind and needs knocking into shape - and I completely agree that maybe it's not been addressed in as good a way as possible, but it's been about finding a way to do this without it seeming like a witch hunt.