As many of you predicted, I already have an idea for a new site pumping through my brain.

I'm not going to get into any details until I have it all thought out in my head, and have the input from my advisors ;) but I will tell you that one aspect of it would be a replacement for BookRelay.

I'm looking for a diverse array of advisors, with varying backgrounds. Some with business backgrounds, some with technical backgrounds, some students, some regular Joe's...or Jo's, guys or girls, as the case may be. Don't disqualify yourself, that's my job :lol:

What will be expected of an advisor? Well, advice, for one :blink: The advisors will also act as sounding boards, letting me bounce ideas off of him or her and helping me refine those ideas. Advisors will also participate in brain-storming sessions, and site testing.

If you are interested, please email me at (casualreader at gmail dot com) to let me know. Also please give me a quick one paragraph "bio" telling me a little about yourself.

Thanks!

CR

Since I know someone will ask...while I expect to start on the initial design of the site very soon, I don't expect the site to go live for 6 months to a year, but when it does, it's going to rock!

I've had a half a dozen or so people volunteer to help so far.

I'd like to get about 4 more. Especially with technical or artistic backgrounds.

Thanks, guys!

Are you for real?

First you get hundreds of people to build a community through your site, then you go AWAL for months at a time - while people continue to send you money for a site that sucked at the best of times. I was completely outraged at your constant "beg o meter" plee for money. Every month regardless of the glitches you would have enough time to program the site to read - OUR DONATIONS HAVE NOT MEET THE COST or some other garbage.

The people ARE great on bookrelay, but the glitches were awful. Then you claim to have had your laptop stolen, the only two things in your house. Criminals would have taken more AND any good programmer knows they have to back up their code in multiple locations.

So I am asking you to stop fleecing these good people who have trusted you for years, and LET THIS GO!

I appreciate your honesty, such a kind and loving soul like yourself certainly deserves my undivided attention.

Yes, I am for real. I have always done my best to give people a pleasant place to play without asking for much of anything in return.

And, no, it wasn't hundreds, it was thousands, actually. I didn't go away for months at a time, I was very busy with my real life. Working full time, going to school full time, and attempting to be a good father to my children and husband to my wife. All things considered, I think I did a decent job of balancing things, though I admit that BookRelay was about 4th on my priority list, behind my family, my job, and my school. I know, that's awful. I really need to get my priorities straight.

I'm sorry the site sucked so bad. I don't know much about web sites, so I just did the best I could. I would like to hope that it was at least better than the alternative...which was continuing to play the game in the BookCrossing forums. I was under the impression that nobody liked that, but apparently it is what is preferred. Good thing I shut down that sucky site.

I also apologize for being so selfish and asking others to share the cost of the site. It was really rude of me to only pay the bulk of the $200 monthly bill 2 or 3 times. I really should have taken on that expense by myself. It was also pretty outrageous of me to take steps to reduce the cost of the site so I wouldn't have to ask for donations again. I've never done anything so low before and hope I never stoop so low again. Please do forgive me for being so selfish.

Yep, my claim that my laptops were stolen was just plain nutty too. I think I'm going to track down the amateurs that stole them and insist that they take more. I'll also get with the neighbors to make sure they ignore any odd activity at my house, and by all means, don't do anything to interrupt any strange activity.

And, you're right, any good programmer knows they have to back up their code in multiple locations. Again, I am one poor excuse for a programmer. Please don't tell my boss! I made the poor assumption that having it on my laptop and the server was enough. The fact that the laptop was only 2 weeks old is certainly no excuse. I did have an older version of the code burned to a CD, so maybe I only suck a little.

I am pretty sure I have stopped fleecing anyone, well, except my wife. She likes a good fleecing now and again.

What about you? Any more pent up anger you'd like to get out? If it makes you feel better, I certainly can take it. Seeing as you are hiding behind an anonymous username, I can't really tell whether I should take your request to heart. It certainly sounds like you are a very important person that I should be listening to. At least in your own mind.

Thanks again for your kind and quite constructive criticisms.

Hugs and kisses.

CR

I really dont know anything about what it takes to develop a site or keep it going, but what I do know is that for the last year I was a member of Book relay and I really enjoyed myself and looked forward to the time I could spend on the site. I know you cant please everyone all of the time but I just want to say that I was one person that was pleased :D

I appreciate that, and I am hoping you are in the majority, because it is for you that I am working on my new site.

And through it all, CR manages to keep his sense of humor. :)

I would help but when it comes to art I can't draw a stick figure!!! Good luck CR with another site. I can't wait to see it!!!!

I love your avatar, EllyMae, Hiro is my hero :lol:

Me too! And finally the show starts back tonight! Wahoo! :)

Okay, I've avoided the CR threads long enough...

Honestly, I agree with the anonymous poster for the most part as I'm having trouble believeing that everything happened all at once like that, but I guess stranger things have happened. *shrugs*

Yes, I feel for CR & his family having to deal with the ice storm and whatever else DID happen, but I am having a hard time believing that a server just dumps someone's code immediately if they are a few days late on a bill. And I believe (I might be wrong on this) that the forum and relay code were not even saved in the same place, so there is really no reason that the forum code and everything we had stored on there should be gone, but there has never been an offer to let us have access to the stuff that we've been trying to slowly retrieve via caches on our own PCs/laptops (BTW, thank you Shaunie for all your hardwork! :kiss: ). Instead, it was just "I may be able to call them an get this all straightened out, but I don't think I will." (granted, this was for the relay code rather than the forum info I believe) Honestly, if I were the person that donated the money for the new forum I'd be PO that their hard-earned money got wasted as such, but every person has a mind of their own and can feel how they want given any situation.

At any rate, I will continue doing what I can to better this forum and hope that everyone sticks around even if CR does come out with a new site eventually down the road. And, if everyone chooses to abandon this forum at that time, well, I guess I'll either go to BSL's forum, or just forget the forums for good. Only time will tell...

I do thank CR for the hardwork he has done in the past, but I'm not going to apologize for jumping to conclusions because everything just seems too hard to believe and my feelings haven't changed.

If anyone feels I'm wrong in saying this, I am sorry, but I can't help how I feel. Feel free to slam/bash me all you want... I'm just going to let it roll off my back (and most likely not to respond to any of it) as I've got much bigger things in life to worry about.

Sand, you are certainly allowed to believe what you want, and I don't expect any kind of apology for that. I know that if I weren't the one this crap happened to, I wouldn't believe it.

You did misunderstand one thing. The code on the server, as well as the database stuff, is retrievable. I payed extra to make sure they did backups for me. Getting that back, and up and running, was going to be a major pain in the butt. Given everything else that was going on, it seemed to me that closing the site was going to be a lot easier than jumping through all the hoops to make that happen.

I'm impressed enough with the job you've done at putting the forums together here that I have no intention on replacing them when I bring up the new site. It will focus more on the gaming aspects.

As far as wasted money, I'm sorry people feel that way, but I understand. I started out giving and giving and giving, so people were very willing to contribute. Later I stopped giving (temporarily, or so I intended), and made the invalid assumption that I had given enough to be given a little slack. I guess I assumed too much, and used up that slack faster than I thought I did.

It was a very hard decision for me to close the site, and I understood that people would be upset. It does torque me a bit that people that I considered friends aren't willing to give me the benefit of the doubt. I guess that just shows that online, you really can't know anyone. Anyone that really knows me knows how vile I think lying is, and that it is something I just don't do.

Oh well...water under the bridge.

I'll leave you alone now.

What bothers me -- and I don't know CR from Adam as I am somewhat new to the forums -- is that no warning was given allowing folks to save what they had worked so hard on. CR stated that he had been thinking for some time about shutting down the forum. If this was the case then why not say something thus allowing folks to save info, like the VBBs and such. Why not offer to let someone else take over? Why take money for new forum software and other upgrades, knowing that you want to shut the forum down?

When I emailed the web host they did not seem to know what the deal was. According to them, the forum just disappeared. At least that was the way I understood it.

I just feel that CR should have at least taken into account that, in his own words, thousands of people frequented BookRelay and to just disappear off the web was a crappy thing for such a well visited site to do. If you are considering shutting down the site give some warning and let people prepare instead of just disappearing with no word.

Anyways, I think that it is fair to say that most of the folks who visited the relay forums found their way here and are working on trying to rebuild the online community that CR allowed to be born by originating BookRelay. For that we can be thankful to him. I think that a lot of people were hurt because they had invested not only money but time into bookrelay but then just had it yanked out from under them with no warning. I am not one of them. I could care less if the forum is at Bookrelay or here. It is all the same to me. I just hope that folks are able to get past the betrayal that that have to feel and are able to work on this forum and make it into all that the BookRelay forum was.

I really really want to say something intelligent but Wendy and Sand have said it all already, far better than I ever could. So thank you :kiss:

I think Sand and wss4 have a lot of silent supporters. ;)

Why remain silent? ;)

I support their right to express their opinion, but like someone else said "Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one, and most of them stink" :D

I give CR the benefit of the doubt. He's never lied to me and Bookrelay was a wonderful place to be for a long time for alot of users. He put alot into it and got out of it only the thanks we gave. I wish him well in his new endeavor and I hope that this forum continues to be a place where we can all come to have fun and play with our friends.

I can't speak for others, but imo, most have already made up their minds what they want to believe, and nothing I can say will affect it, one way or the other.

Meshe, I really like and respect you, but your quote makes it sound as though you are judging the opinions before you hear them. Which makes it hard for many people to speak up; they feel pre-judged.

I doubt you meant to do that. As you said, the people here are your friends. One of the strengths of this community has been the ability of people to express unpopular opinions and at the very least not get flayed for it. (at most, get ignored)

For many people I've PMed with this past week, this is a sensitive subject. A lot of them feel hurt or betrayed, and they haven't sorted through their emotions sufficiently to be able to post what they are feeling. Some of them, myself included, have seen their (our?) feelings posted by someone else. And some don't want to start a war; this is a fresh start, right? The honeymoon ought to last a bit longer.

Like I said, Meshe, I really like and respect you. I can see where you're coming from with the question of "Why remain silent?" I'd love to hear more about what people are thinking and feeling. Even though I haven't been around for the past three months, that doesn't mean I stopped caring. If I had, I wouldn't be here now.

Thank you for helping me make up my mind to let go of trying to contribute to this forum or any relays. When CR closed shop, I could not decide whether to be a part of this new group or not. You have helped make up my mind. From my point of view this group has changed so much the past couple of months I really don't think I want to hang around anymore. Maybe a few of you should stop & take a look at how others are perceiving you. It has gotten where there are a few people who believe it is their way or the highway. In the past couple of months I have felt totally shut out and ignored. So here have it...enjoy it.

Thank you CR for all you have done. I really enjoyed the relays for a long time. I am sorry that in the end you were treated this way but I guess some people will always expect something for nothing. Good Luck, God Bless.

I am with chronicbooker3, thank you CR. I really enjoyed relaying the past few years. No, it was not perfect but then again nothing is in my world :D . Best of luck to you & yours.

Like I posted before, this is a great community and I really thank CR for all he put into it. I wasn't happy with how things were being handled before the site shut down, so rather than be negative I just left. Maybe things will be different now, with a different dynamic and people involved. I spent what I consider to be a fairly large sum in donations on the old site, way more than a dollar here or there, so I think giving people access to what was there is only right, especially as other people helped fund it, like me, and should have the benefit of what the funds they contributed help create. But if that doesn't happen, it's a lesson for me and generosity, and if I give with the expectation of something back, like service or communication, it isn't a donation.

Anyway, I'm happy to see so many people here and I'll be dropping by to say hello. Hi to all my old friends, and hi to potential new friends!

It is my supposition that CR lost interest and with the decrease in funding also lost a source of revenue. He couldn't afford to just hand it over and have someone find out the actual costs and revenues

I'm not fussed one way or another by relays (although I did like them). But it's by no means the only way to pass on books :D

Not much bothered me like it has others with regards to the site and CR. I didn't mind contributing to the site - no probs. So I justed wanted to thank CR for everything he has done in the past. If a new relay gaming section is created then that's sweet. If not, so be it. I just dig how even when people are putting $hit on ya you are so witty with your response and maintain perspective without anger or hurt. Others would respond very differently, which tells me that you are safe and secure in who and what you are - and that's all that matters. So again, cheers for everything you have done and I look forward to any new creations.

I'm just glad that the people I love listening to on the forums are still here :wub:

WOM I put that big smilie :D next to that saying for a reason. It was meant to lighten it up. I respect that everyone has their opinion. I've certainly not prejudged any and I hope that others here feel free to post theirs. I don't like anonymous posts. Anonymous posts especially negative ones always irk me. If you want to say something at least have the balls to sign your name to it.

The old forum at bookrelay had begun to feel like a club. I have to say that at times I felt left out of it. I realized that I was letting a few who seemed to have the attitude that it was "their way or the highway" or just that the forum belonged to them get to me, so I let go of it. I also realized that no one could make me "feel" anything if I didn't allow them to. This is Sand's forum, she can run it the way she sees fit. If it was mine, I wouldn't allow guest or anonymous posts, but it's not mine.

I also have loads of respect for you. When you had a problem at BR, you were open about it. I don't think you've ever hidden behind an anonymous post. When CR couldn't (or as you believed wouldn't) fix your problem, you resigned as a moderator and quit coming to the forum. You were up front and open and I respected you for that.

I'm here because I think of all of you as my friends. I'll continue to come here because I love all y'all even if I don't always agree with you. Hey, if we can't be open and honest with our friends why have friends.

Oh, Meshe, I have to tell you that I am glad to see this post from you. I was afraid I'd offended! Thanks for being open to a rebuttal, or parry, or whatever it was. :kiss:

Yeah, I'm not one for being anonymous. So those of you who think I posted one of the negative guest posts, thanks, but I'm not smart enough to think to mis-spell AWOL! (and yes, believe it or not, but some people did ask if it was me. Nope. I've said what I have to. On this subject, anyway.)

I guess my only problem is why start a new site? I'm confused. I can accept the original site's demise. I'm so happy that someone has stepped up to keep the community together. It seems to be working. Is this wonderful site idea to replace this current one? I don't get it.

I personally don't understand why he'd want to start up another site either, given he seemed not to have the time or inclination to run the one he already had. I also think it's slightly tacky to come here and ask your displaced "customers" so to speak, for help on your new project. But whatever.

This is exactly the problem that I have with this "new site" idea. I'm wondering how long it will take before interest wanes on it as it obviously did on BookRelay.

Interest didn't wane, at least not for me. Yes, time was an issue, but won't be for much longer. I have what I think is a really great site idea, and need to come up with something to do as my senior project. The new site idea is a perfect match, meeting all of the requirements of my university. The new site really has little or nothing to do with BookRelay.

After my senior project is complete, I'll have more time, and will be treating the new site as a part-time job. Part of the reason for this topic was ask for assistance, since the site is way too much for one person to handle. That assistance has been awesome. What started out as a good idea has expanded into an exceptional idea. It's like 50 times the site BookRelay ever was. It's something I'm very excited about, and my "advisors" are very excited about. Hopefully some of you will get excited about it too.

And I know nobody will believe this, but a big part of the reason I want to make the new site something special is to make it up to you guys. I've apologized, I've admitted that the way everything went down sucked, but apparently that's not good enough. Oh well...either you will get over it or you won't. I guess I shouldn't care. I do...but I shouldn't.

Peace and love.

CR

But you have not apologized as far as I have seen. You have given an excuse as to why the site was suddenly gone, but you have not apologized and you also left a lot of room for doubt with your comments about wanting to shut the site down for some time.

I really am not trying to start any trouble because I really am not that invested in this whole thing. I liked hanging out at BookRelay and I like what is being built here, but other than that I have no loyalties one way or another.

My whole thing is that while you built a website as a school project (I guess, I am not really even sure as to why the site came to be) it became much more than that when all of these people began investing into the community that grew from it and once that happened your responsibility to those who visited, supported, and helped to create your site became much more. You have posted about integrity but you fail to see how badly you hurt these people. Then you post as if you are the one who was let down, not the 'thousands' of people who made an online home out of BookRelay. I don't know you personally and maybe if I did, like so many of the folks who frequented BookRelay, I would think differently about what you did. But I don't and I think that makes it possible for me to have a less emotionally involved POV about the whole thing. (At least I like to think so. )

Yes you had a string of bad luck, but you yourself have posted that you could have brought the site back, but you chose not to because it would have just been too much of a PITA to do. That you had been thinking about killing the site for some time. How do you think that makes all these people feel who supported you all these years? You pretty much said that they did not really matter enough to you to put that extra effort into at least letting them have a say in the demise of their online community. To me that is what you need to apologize and ask forgiveness for.

Very well said, wss4 - I agree. I haven't seen any acknowledgment or apology for what we all lost - there was a lot of info lost with BookRelay's demise, from VBB info which is taking a lot of time to recover/reconstruct, to our blogs that meant a lot to some us. It's all just gone and focus is merrily diverted to some new project, that we're being asked to get excited about? I don't think so! I'm surprised at the support that has been received here for that after what's happened. I was going to stay out of this, but when I read your post, wss4, it just hit the nail on the head and I had to speak up and agree.

Point taken.

For the record NOBODY has asked me for the source code, or the databases, or the domain, or anything else. If anyone had asked for it, I would have gone to the trouble to get it.

I made a poor decision, I admit that.

I suck. I admit that.

From the bottom of my heart I apologize for any trouble I may have cause any of you.

I understand where all of you are coming from. I really do. I would be happy to do whatever is needed to make it right, but the perception is that there is nothing I can do. People are complaining without offering solutions. No problem can ever be solved until people stop bitching and start fixing.

To those of you that have found it in your hearts to forgive me, or at least look past this, I appreciate you a great deal, and am happy to call you my friend.

To the rest of you, rumor has it that time heals all wounds. Hopefully that's true and you can put a little more weight on the positive and at least figure out that I'm not such a bad guy after all.

CR, you have your pm's turned off on bookcrossing - I know at least one person there was interested in getting ahold of you to see if they could get the code etc because her son would like to take over the running of the site.

http://www.bookcrossing.com/forum/9/4138076

Her email is tenneh@rainbowhorses.com

This is not true. Look at the wonderful site Sand and everyone has created here. Look at the reconstructions of the VBBs. Solutions are getting worked on and furthermore they seem to work and be an improvement. People have been doing a whole load of work and I applaud them

I think CheriePie was also trying to get ahold of you for the same reason.

I've put in a request for the site code and the database dumps. If I'm able to get them, CheriePie will be getting the forum database, and I'll talk to tenneh about the bookrelay source code.

Thanks for the heads up, saradee and shaunesay.

AceOfHearts, you're right, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I am VERY impressed with the job Sand has done in getting the forums together. It's awesome. What I meant by my comment was that the people that are having problems with me are not doing anything to solve that problem. I too applaud them for the work they have done. I've never just written anyone off, so I have trouble understanding that, that's all.

I'm not really sure how to reconcile these two statements. It seems to me that people came to BookRelay for the relays but stayed for the forum/community. I know you know this, but you, CR, didn't create the book relay community. You created the code that brought us together. There were relays before your site and clearly there are relays after it as well. So I can't see why you think you need to make anything up to us. Code made things pretty but it wasnt the heart of what we did. We are.

So for you to say that your new site doesn't have anything to do with BR, I'm not sure why I should care about it. Or why I would embrace it as a "make up" for the demise of BR.

The perception is that you can't do anything to fix it, because you've made it that way. Which is fine, and perhaps the way it should be.

**I realize that my words sound harsh, and I don't particularly intend them to be. I'd just rather not see us pander to your martyr-like posts anymore.

"At any rate, I have been tossing the idea of closing the site around in my head for a while, and when events fall into place so neatly to make it more painful to continue the site than to let it die, I can't ignore that." From Jan 19th


"I understand where all of you are coming from. I really do. I would be happy to do whatever is needed to make it right, but the perception is that there is nothing I can do. People are complaining without offering solutions. No problem can ever be solved until people stop bitching and start fixing. " From Jan 23

What were our perceptions to be? Jan 19th when you announced that BR was really gone and then you ask for help with your new site. Basically the boyfriend dumps his girlfriend only to turn around and ask her to help him ask out her best friend.

People have been doing ALOT of fixing. But don't you think the bitching was warranted based on your statements?

"For the record NOBODY has asked me for the source code, or the databases, or the domain, or anything else. If anyone had asked for it, I would have gone to the trouble to get it. "

In all the time that you were thinking of closing the site--did YOU ask if anyone would be interested in taking over or helping out? Did YOU think that no one would have helped you go to the "trouble" of getting it? I have only been on this site for a short time (joined BR about 2 weeks before the site went down) but I can tell this is a group of people that would have been more than understanding and willing to help out or take over if you had just shared your thoughts.

"I've put in a request for the site code and the database dumps. If I'm able to get them, CheriePie will be getting the forum database, and I'll talk to tenneh about the bookrelay source code."

I'm not trying to blast you, but you could have saved a lot of headache and turmoil had you done this in the first place.

I wish you well in whatever you do CR.

Ok, I give up. I'm done. I've tried, but keep adding fuel to the fire. It's just not worth it.

Goodbye. CasualReader is no more.