I guess I assumed that the requirement of being a member of bookcrossing in order to join bookrelay was carried over to our new site. From a couple of posts I have recently seen, I'm now thinking that is not the case. Has it been like that from the beginning of BO? Was there discussion on this issue that I missed?

One of the things that I really liked about this place (or that only existed in my mind, I suppose) is that everyone here was a member of bookcrossing. I admit that I am a little troubled by the thought that BO could become just another book site and loose the focus on BC that we now have.

I agree that I would like BO to be an offshoot of BCers...

Haven't even thought that this site would NOT be only for BC members. I don't think I like the idea of it being open to everybody (meaning non-BCers), to be honest :huh:

I definitely do not think BookCrossing should be a requirement. Maybe perhaps more of a very strong suggestion for those who want to play in swaps and relays. But to imply it's a requirement to be a member of BookCrossing before being accepted as a member here just smacks of fascism to me.

Heck, we've accepted memberships from a number of authors who aren't BookCrossers, including Doreen Orsini, Colleen Gleason, and most recently Jon F. Merz, author of the Lawson Vampire Novels, who found his way here via my blog review of one of his books! To have declined any of these people simply because they were not BookCrossers seems preposterous and elitist, and I'd like to think that we're beyond that, and a lot more open-minded and accepting here, which is something we've always tried to promote.

I apologize if my POV does not agree with the others expressed here. Of course, as an Admin, I'm open to hearing the other side, but I'm fairly certain from past discussions with both Sand and Cheesy that they would stand behind my thoughts as well. So my word is not written in stone or anything... it's simply my opinion and perceptions. :rolleyes:

When I first say the posts about non Bookcrossing members I was surprised as well. I had always assumed that all members here were screened to be sure that they were bookcrossing members since swapping bookcrossing books is what we are about.

I don't see why they have to be BookCrossers? As long as they are book lovers why does it matter? :huh: Over at BR yes we had to be BCers because of the way the relays were set up.

I thought when we first started here and were looking for a name it was discussed that this site was not a replacement bookrelay forum, but something brand new and that members here did not have to be members on BC. :shrug:

In my heart I'd like members to be BCers too, but my head says does it really matter?

Sunny <- probably babbling but it is 3am here!!! :D

Heh, in a way I see it as an opportunity to convert more BookCrossers in the long run anyway. If we've got them playing in swaps and relays and post something saying it's strongly encouraged *insert arm twist here* that all books you trade are journaled with a BookCrossing ID, then we can turn more people on to BookCrossing.

We're kinda going through that right now with one of our new members lexilewords who's plaing in the July PUF swap. She said she noticed the talk that all the books being traded were BookCrossing books so we went on to encourage her why we do so, etc. I'm not sure yet, but I bet that in the next couple days, we'll have recruited a new BookCrosser as well as Obsessed Swapper. So what does it really matter what order it happens in? :shrug:

Yep, that's kind of what I htink too - how long can the newbies resist the lure...... :shedevil:

eta: obviously that should say think not htink, but I thought it was a nice new word - so didn't correct it. DId I mention the time here? :whistle:

Well, as someone that's still deciding if she wants to continue with bookcrossing (I'm basically just using up my preprinted labels and seeing how I feel about it), I certainly hope not :-)

I'm thinking if I can stay out of the forums over there and just use it to track books (I changed my shelf around quite a bit over there) I'll be okay. I'm just tweaked.

I do not 'mind' people on the forums not being BCers but I do mind swapping with people who aren't. I try to be careful to send books sent to me to 'trusted' people who will journal them Likewise when I 'get' a book on the swaps if the person is a BCer I tend to have more faith the book will be sent on. I have been very careful not to put up 'other' people's books on BM or TT, maybe I shouldn't be trying so hard

Guess I am a fascist :angry:

:ditto:


Although I also agree that it doesn't matter which order it comes in (as Cherie said) - BookObssessed first or BookCrossing first.

I don't see that having membership restrictions is anything close to fascism. I can't join the Boston University Alumni Association because I didn't go to BU. I can't join the Springfield, MA Credit Union because I don't live or work in Springfield. There are plenty of things in life that I can't join but I don't consider it a slap in my face. Especially when there are ways for me to join them. I could go to school at BU and I could move to Springfield if it was important for me to join either of those organizations. It isn't like we would be saying, "You can't join BO if you have red hair or were born in Canada." Bookcrossing is free to join and open to anyone.

What if I want to advertise a ray on BO and on BC and a BO'er/non-BC'er wants to join? Do I say, "Ray open only to BC'ers? Non-BC'ers may join our community, but not participate in rays." or do I let anyone join? If I let anyone join and the shipping order puts them between two BC'ers/non-BO'ers... How are they going to contact each other? Through the organizer? That would be a logistical headache for everyone, not to mention a lack of a journal entry may lead to confusion on where the book is during the ray. And if you have multiple non-BC'ers in the ray it would be even worse.

I don't think that saying something like this... "This is a community of book-loving Bookcrossers. Bookcrossing is open to everyone and free to join, check it out here... www.bookcrossing.com. If you decide that joining Bookcrossing is something you are interested in, then you will love bookobsessed!" ...is too elitist.

Interesting question, I hadn't thought about the Bookray issue.
I guess Bookrings and rays could be restricted to BC members only. :thinking:
On the other hand I don't mind non BCers to hang around here and swap books, but it sure would be nice if they would take the time to make a JE, even if it is an anonymous one. It would be like wild releasing...
I was also enthusiastic about Cherie's idea of non BCers becoming BCers because they heard about it here at BO. Wouldn't that be nice!
Is there a way we could identify non BCers from BCers? Like setting up a check box when people sign in or something? :shrug:

Requiring members to belong to Bookcrossing is no different than the tons of Yahoo groups that have sprouted up from Bookcrossing, who require that the folks who join are members of BX. It is a way to ensure that books stay within the Bookcrossing system.

If I wild release a book or place it on PBS or BookMooch, I do so knowing that I may never see another JE on that book.

When I trade/swap books on this site, I fully expect that the person who gets my book will 1. Make a journal entry & 2. Keep the book within the Bookcrossing system (although I know that this one is iffy because once it leaves my hands they can do what they want with it. But at least if they are bookcrossing members I will know what they eventually do with it when they release it.)

I save the more sought after, popular books to use here on this site in swaps/VBBs/etc, because I know that there will be a journal entry made and the odds are good that the book will be kept in the Bookcrossing system by being placed back in swaps, VBBs, etc. If I am willing to let them leave the Bookcrossing system and not have them journaled again, then I will place them on PBS or BookMooch and get credits for them so I can get more wishlist books.

By allowing non-bookcrossing members to join, you up the odds that books will disappear from the system. It is fine if by joining here they do become Bookcrossing members, but I don't see that always happening. You already have some who come in post only requests for free books and nothing else.

For me, I will watch to see how this plays out. As long as non-Bookcrossers are 'strongly encouraged' to join Bookcrossing and make journal entries it will be okay, but if we start seeing a large number of non-Bookcrossers coming in and taking books out of the system without joining, then I will change the way that I use the site.

I just spotted this thread.

I too had the same questions about non-BCers joining in our fun over here.

I don't see why being a member of BC should be a requirement over here, however, as others have already mentioned, I'm reluctant to pass on books to non-BCers because of the whole journal thing. Also, without being members they don't know how certain things work on the site, such as the statuses, bookrings, bookrays, etc.

I agree that it doesn't matter which happens first. Although, I am alarmed at how many people that are listed as members, don't bother to visit the forums after they sign up.

If one of the major points of BookCrossing is wild releasing, don't books leave the "system" in that sense? There is no guarantee the books will be found by a BC member. You can only hope the person who finds the book will make a journal entry and maybe become a member. Your book is "in the wild" for others to find. It's similar to allowing non-BC members to join BO. You are basically just releasing the books to other people who may or may not journal it. One of the reasons I don't wild release anymore is because how do I know the book didn't get thrown out or got damaged sitting somewhere? At least I'll know the book went to a new home if I pass it on to someone who really wants it, BC-member or not.

Is there a way to weed out the accounts that haven't been active for a certain amount of time?

I don't see the big deal for rings and rays. I would assume you check out anyone who requests to join, whether it be here or on bookcrossing. When they ask to join, you ask what their bookcrossing name is if you don't recognize them, and then you don't let them join if they're not a bookcrossing member. What's the big deal? :shrug:

I have one of our newest members, lexilewords, in my AIM contact list now, and though she said she was going to join BC and register the books she's playing with here :w00t: I want to be available to encourage her and answer any questions for her along the way. As we've all seen, BC is not very user friendly to the uninitiated. There is no FAQ available with all the most frequently asked questions answered all in one place. I've heard a number of times of people not joining bookcrossing simply because "they don't get it" or they want to "swap and trade with others, not wild release". It is this second aspect which we need to point out to the uninitiated that bookcrossing is simply being used to keep a journal of where our books have traveled, not necessarily because we want to wild release them.

It's not so much work for the swap organizer, or the ring/ray organizer to verify that the joining person is a bookcrossing member. It's pretty much something I do already anyway since with rings, I include a link to the person's bookshelf in the j/e listing the order. :shrug:

I wanted to also note there is a very small group that are nonBCers and most of those are authors. And like Cherie said Lexie is going to join BC. :)

And the authors can't even say hello? How rude. (j/k!!)

Why are you alarmed? That happens in any forum. We do screen for spammers. Although every once in a while one slips through. :blush: But then they are banned. :wink:

Doreen Orsini did post here a few times. I don't think the others have but maybe they are busy writing. :giggle:

I don't care if members of the forum are bookcrossing members or not.

But as mentioned before, I am much more comfortable playing in swaps with bookcrossing members knowing that my books will be journalled, and having a bit more faith that I will get the book I am owed.

When I wild release, I *know* there is a very high chance that the book will never be journaled.

However, if I send it to a KNOWN person (such as BookObsessors) I expect it to be journaled when they get it. Not to be rude, but this community came to be because of BookCrossing. If non-BookCrossers are going to find this place and join in, that's fine. I don't think they should be required to join BC to be a part of our fun (we've always been a welcoming community) but I'd like to know that at the very least any books I choose to send would at least be anonymously journaled.

Another concern of mine is just non-BC people finding their way over here just trying to get free books from us. :unsure:

There's BCer's that do that. :(

FWIW, they *are* aware of this and say they're trying to fix it. They just announced they've re-worked the FAQ page. So I guess that's good news. :)

I've read the postings here, and I would like at least a strong encouragement that people sign up for bookcrossing "so that they can journal any books they receive from us" (but maybe with an acknowledgement that books can also be journalled anonymously if somebody is really vehemently against signing up... although why sign up here and not be willing to sign up there???).

All in all, I'm pretty flexible on this one. I can pretty much appreciate both sides, but come down slightly on the "prefer BC folk here" side. :shrug:

Cool! Thanks for letting us know. :thumbsup:


FWIW, I just wanted to make clear my stand on this. I'm definitely not against non-BCers signing up here. However, I would also prefer that if they're gonna play the game, i.e. swaps, relays, exchanges, they should play with books which have a BCID number.

So in that regard, I've definitely done my part in helping to convince Lexie to sign up. Though I think that was a group effort by everyone in the PUF swap, but I think this is the kind of thing that shouldn't have to be set in stone and saying you must be a BC member before signing up here. And that we should all encourage these users, provide them the info they're looking for, and yup if necessary tell them, I don't want to send you a book if you're not going to journal it, etc.

I thought that membership in BX was required as some sort of spammer-filter but I know administrators here ( :wub: ) are checking every new member so I do believe they know what are they doing.

And about many members who are not participating in forums I don’t se reasons for alarming. Namely majority of those people are here because they believe this place is a 'replacement' for BookRelay.com and there were 6, 7, (who knows how many) hundreds members but only 5-10% were active on forums. I know BO is little bit different since the whole site is one big forum but even so, their initial reason why they are here was bookrelay.
However I’ve noticed as well members who only post in the RABCK threads but then the same thing can be seen on BX forums and also giver can always ignore such requests.

I do see small issue about journaling ring/rays but then I doubt that non BX participants would reject to journal book or if they are ’strongly encouraged’ to join BX neglect that. On the other hand ring organizer has every right to refuse to include any of potential participant on the shipping list. I know that some BXers (and BOers) are adding note “if you see suspicious member on the list please contact me with the argument” in the initial ring JE. So that shouldn’t be such a huge issue.

But what bothers me is that people are actually worried about book they send where it will continue its journey and I think about BM. I never thought that person who sends me BX book would have anything against if I register and ship that book through BookMooch. I’ve done that several times and only once book has been journaled (by a BXer who hasn’t been active for years :)) and that is why I’m posting “wild Release”-like journal entry when I’m sending book to BM member because (as someone said) book is leaving system.
But then books registered in BX system are meant to go out of the system eventually and hopefully come back after some time, hopefully bringing some new BXer. Or not?

You express that so well, Milan!

I'm going to add it to my little Word document of "great BC posts" (now to be renamed "great BookCrossing/BookObsessed posts").

Why does that bother you zzz?
Isn't it just a matter of personal preference?

probably because I'm taking it personally.
I'm feeling kind of obliged to find BookCrossing nest for book I received from BXer because if not I might disappointed sender or change image of myself in his/her eyes in negative way. But probably mostly because I never consider that as something which could produce negative emotion especially because book is going to someone who actually want to read it.

"bothers me" is probably wrong expression, "surprises me" is much better.

:blush: Thank you Megi.
It's a lovely compliment, especially considering it's in English (I often pick wrong word).

I don't want to speak for everyone that feels this way, but personally I don't care where my books go after I get rid of them. I just feel better about sending books that I have received from BCers to other BCers. Plus it's great to see that chain of journalling, which rarely happens with books released to non-BC members.

I'm the same way. When I send it or release it or whatever, it's not my book anymore... :)

And that's very true when wild releasing or sending out via various swap sites like PBS or BM or TT. I guess I've been assuming that people on this forum were also involved in bookcrossing. The reason I participate here and sign up for rings on the BC site is for the journal entries. I expect to never hear from a book again if I release it into the wild or send it out via BM, so I'm pleasantly surprised if one of those books gets journaled. I expect that when I send out a book via a BO swap, or bookbox that I will get a thank you journal entry at the very least, and hopefully a couple of thoughts when the book is finally read.

So I'm not really sure how I feel about the whole thing. I don't see why it shouldn't be expected that if people were taking part in the games and such that they would belong to BC as well. Not that that means anything, thinking about it there are several books I've sent from here to BCers that haven't been journaled, even though I know they've arrived.

When I joined Bookmooch I posted on here to see what people's views were about using bookcrossing books received from another BCer. The resounding answer was to go for it. I've had a few joiners, and a number of books requested by bookcrossers through bookmooch.

Presumably no one minds if I wild release a book onto the streets which I've received through here? If that's the case, I can't see the problem with releasing through bookmooch - I've got a far higher percentage of 'catchs' through there then I have for wildreleasing.

I suspect that non bcers who do receive a book through BO will be tempted to journal anyway, just to see what the fuss is about, I'm sure I would be :whistle:

Sigh... see, this is why I'm obsessed with the books that aren't "mine" - I always worry I'll accidentally wild release it or give it to a family member who doesn't bookcross.

I dunno I'm very much in the "it's gone, I've let it go" mentality. The only thing I am wenchy about are my bookrings :-)

I think it just comes down to different mentalities of "my book" vs. "not my book anymore".

I dunno, it's a moot point for me because I do journal them and then try hard to make sure another bookcrosser gets them next.

I'm talking about getting a journal entry just from the person I send it to from here. Like if I send you a book from a swap or a VBB I'd expect to at least get a journal entry acknowledging the receipt, my thought is that it's only polite. After that, I don't care what you do with it next, it would be nice if you journaled your thoughts when the book was read, but if you don't, you don't.

I'm not trying to be a control freak, I don't care if if books I registered get traded on PBS or given to non bookcrossers, it's that "thank you, book has arrived safely" journal entry that I'm looking for.

Exactly. And I know that things slip through the cracks - heck I've done it myself occasionally - but I fully expect that 99% of the books I send out to Obsessors or other BookCrossers will get the "Thanks, it's here" entry.

After that... keep it, trade it, wild release it, give it to a friend or family member... whatever you want. Just let me know that it's not lost in the mail. :lol: